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Post by Fourth & Inches on Jul 9, 2004 14:41:27 GMT -5
Wide Receivers: Entering this season, the Chickens have the best WR duo with Moss and Harrison. The only issue is that Harrison is 32 years old and this may be the year that Reggie Wayne begins to emerge as the Colts future #1 receiver. Harrison will still be very productive but his days as a top three receiver may be behind him. Moss will remain a top WR threat for years to come. Grade: A Running Back: Two years ago this RB trio would have been arguably better than any other RB trio. Ricky should produce numbers similar to the top backs this season but I have to admit the substance abuse is starting to raise some question marks for me. If he is forced to miss time as a result of a league suspension, that could pose problems with him, especially given his unstable mental health. Dillon is a talented RB but like RW, he does not seem to have his head on straight. The new digs in New England provide a fresh start but at age 30, he better maximize his potentail here b/c the chances may become far and few between here after. T. Henry is an interesting RB with loads of talent. If the Bills continue to give him the carries he deserves, Henry may put up the best numbers of the three. There are some issues with Willis taking carries away but I do not envision Henry losing that many carries. I expect Williams and Henry to head the ChickNs backfield w/ Dillon serving as one of the best #3 backs in the league. I think if all goes well, ChickNs RBs will be among the league leaders in production. However, I am going on record saying that it would not surprise me if the fantasy production of this Trio does not meet expectations this year, given the reasons mentioned above. It will be interesting to see who has the best RB production in the Madden Division w/ the combos of Rickey & Henry, Priest & Tiki, Deuce & . Grade: A-
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Post by The Chicken on Jul 10, 2004 1:59:49 GMT -5
A very good analysis - just one question
May I ask your top 3 WRs in the league this year? I find it almost comical that you dont include Harrision as even the 3rd best WR.
Contract year - same offense this year with a stronger EDGE and Dallas Clark the whole year with Pollard.
Just curious.
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Post by Fourth & Inches on Jul 10, 2004 13:09:11 GMT -5
Comical??
T. Holt R. Moss T. Owens H. Ward/C. Johnson/Harrison.
You make the point for me, a stronger Edge will mean more running and screen passes, a healthy D. Clark, Pollard and an emerging Wayne will mean less touches. Do not get me wrong, Harrison is still a top WR, I just said his days as a top 3 are behind him. He may be 4th, he may be 6th. Wherever he falls this year, I am making the point that he will begin sliding down rather than moving up.
I still gave you a Grade of an A, what do you want???
4 inches
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Post by chickenwho on Jul 10, 2004 23:57:59 GMT -5
Quote From ESPN The Magazine pg. 115 July 05 2004 issue:
"With Peyton, Edgerrin, Marivn Harrison and Marcus Pollard - plus WRs Reggie Wayne and Brandon Stokley and promising TE Dallas Clark - how will Indy divvy up touches and keep its stars happy?"
This is a great question and would leave some concern for Harrison. I also agree he will not be a Top 3 WR this year. Again. only , my opinion. This year I feel is the "changing of the guard" so to speak in top receivers. I think there will be a lot of suprises at the leader board come mid-season!!
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Post by The Chicken on Jul 11, 2004 18:02:45 GMT -5
Terrel Owens over Harrision at #3? WOW what a horrible statement and i will tell you exactly why:
(1) He always seems to miss a a couple of games. He missed two starts in 1999, 2000 & 2002. He also missed a start in 2003.
(2) The Phily offense spreads the ball around and TO was already bitching about not getting the ball enough, a classic TO thing for attention. Reid wont give into his bitching like MOOCH did.
(3) McNabb is not as accurate a passer as Garcia and miles behind Peyton Manning
(4) You mention Harrison is older and could be slowing down and you replace his top 3 status with a 31 year old?? unbelievable.
Lastly - Chad Johnson has a rookie QB and Hines Ward is unhappy about his contract and will be playing catch with Tommy Maddox for half a season before another ROOKIE comes in.
Im sorry but i completely disagree with your choice at #3.
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Post by chickenwho on Jul 11, 2004 19:37:38 GMT -5
Then why did you ask others to evaulate your team?? It seems you already knew!!!
Accept others opinions, everyone else accepts yours!! The season will tell all! ;D
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Post by Fourth & Inches on Jul 11, 2004 19:41:49 GMT -5
ChickN:
I do not think the statement is as bad as you make it out to be. Either way, it is my opinion and as you like to say, I am exercising my right to free speech.
(1) While TO has missed 5 games over the past four years, his production is comparable to Harrison's exept for 2002 (Harrison's career year of 143 catches):
2000 TO--14 GMs 97 Recs 1451 YDs 13 TDs MH--16 GMs 102 Recs 1413 YDs 14 TDs Advantage--TO (b/c better per game numbers).
2001 TO--16 GMs 93 Recs 1412 YDs 16 TDs MH--16 GMs 109 Recs 1524 YDs 15 TDs Advantage--MH b/c better per game numbers but note that MH had 16 more catches and less TD production than TO.
2002 TO--14 GMs 100 Rec 1300 YDs 13 TDs MH--16 GMs 143 Recs 1722 YDs 11 TDs Advantage--MH hands down but again note that the man caught 43 more passes and still had 2 less TDs.
2003 TO---15 GMs 80 Recs 1102 YDs 9 TDs MH--15 GMs 94 Recs 1272 YDs 10 TDs Advantage---MH but only b/c the 49ers did not get TO the ball. Only 80 catches is a joke yet he still had 9 TDs.
What does all of this mean? It means that the statement I made earlier was not HORRIBLE. Based on the numbers, I think TO has more talent than MH just did not get the ball as much. TO finds the end zone more often per catch than MH. If TO can get the ball as much as MH this year, he will put up better numbers than MH.
(2) This leads me to my next point, Harrison's decrease in touches will occur at the same time that TO's touches increase this year. The reason Philly has spread the ball around in the past is b/c the WRs have been awful. They have not had a "go to" WR for quite some time. The arrival of TO brings with it a featured wideout. I agree that Reid won't give into his "pregnant doging," but he will GIVE HIM THE BALL. These items go hand in hand, TO will not run his mouth b/c Reid will give him the ball. Philly paid big bucks for TO and plans on giving him the ball and more than 80 times.
(3) McNabb is no Peyton Manning but he is better than Garcia and the fact that he has had no WRs in the past has contributed to his poor numbers.
(4) I said that Harrison's age will begin to slow him down, I did not say that TO's age will slow him down. Age hits people in different ways, and I think it will show more with Harrison.
Chad Johnson does have a Rookie QB, albeit one with a better arm than the slug throwing him the ball last year. Johnson will put up great numbers again this year. Hines Ward is very underrated, and what NFL player is HAPPY with his contract these days--more insentive to perform well and move elsewhere for more $$$.
Obviously, you are entitled to disagree with my my #3 selection but it is not as horrible as you convince yourself that it is. It is not unrealistic to say that Holt, Moss, TO will have better numbers than Harrison. Ward will also put up numbers close to this group.
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Post by The Chicken on Jul 11, 2004 23:39:09 GMT -5
Then why did you ask others to evaulate your team?? It seems you already knew!!! Accept others opinions, everyone else accepts yours!! The season will tell all! ;D hilarious statement dude - my original quote had nothing to do with the assessment of my team. I started off by saying GREAT ANALYSIS (if you recall) This entire discussion is simply our opinions on one player and his future projections (based on opinion and historical data and just general knowledge). To say I do not accept people's opinions is ludacris, I may disagree with or even ridicule people's opinions but I will always accept people's opion's. I am the biggest advocate of using this board to say anything you want. So please dont say that I do not ACCEPT other people's opinions. thanks.
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Post by The Chicken on Jul 12, 2004 0:02:43 GMT -5
To 4 inches:
I looked over your argument and we basically disagree on one thing.
For 3 years - Harrision has been in a high power offense that spreads the ball and Manning averages about 390-395 completions a year but shares with the likes of Edge, Q.Ismail, R.Wayne, Dilger, Pollard, Stokley etc.
I will go on record to say that I think (IN MY OPNINION) that INDY is more of a spread offense in the last 3 years than SF was.
In SF - TO was the man and there was no other man really.
I personally think PHILLY and especially McNabb will NOT focus on one guy. They like to have a controled and spread offense that eats up time and yardage (no big plays or razzle dazzle). Eagles love the short yardage plays.
Andy Reid is a product of the GB system, from that school of thought (SEE JOHN GRUDEN and MIKE HOLMGREN) their offenses are always spread around.
So i believe our view on Philly's offense system is the underlying difference. MH has been getting it done in a spread system. T.O. not really. And if you have been playing fantasy football for awhile, you will tend to agree that WRs changing teams have never really dominated the league as it takes time to pick up a system - see Peerless Price.
Lastly you throw great stats out indicating that on an AVG per game basis T.O. is as good or better that MH.
But dont discount DURABILITY. What if T.O. misses that one game this year when you need him to clinch a NHFFL playoff berth?? TO is known to have BIG games but is also to be known to take games off when things dont go his way. I know this cuz i owned him last year in this league as well.
During the 2000-2002 seasons he accumulated 69% of his touchdowns during weeks 5-11. Last season he only had 1 score after 4 weeks, but did turn it up a notch towards the end of the season. I think it's at least fair to label him as a slow starter, which is not a desirable trait for a FF WR1.
I don't doubt his talent and I don't doubt his physical prowress, but unless you kinda back up the statement that you think AGE will hit MH harder than TO (medically) I cant buy into that.
These guys are not TROY HAMBRICK they are both in great shape. Terrel has caught much more passes over the middle of the field than MH has and thus taken much more punishment.
I would say that McNabb is a smarter QB than Garcia, but my statement was regarding completion percentages. I cant wait to see T.O. go off on Donvan on the sidelines when he throws a few of his notorious balls in the ground.
Lastly, i personally think T.O. is heading to a tougher division and schedule this year with some serious coaches.
Add it all up and TO is #7 on my list of WRs.
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Post by Gerald on Jul 12, 2004 22:57:51 GMT -5
And to think, we only have 60 days till kickoff. Even longer to see who's opinions are more accurate. Personally, i'm not a big TO fan, which is why i traded him away faster then he could say shortbus. I'd give you my WR rankings, but i don't think so. But i will tell you he's not in my top 5. Everybody has there own arguments and opinions, which is one of the things that makes fantasy football so much fun. So argue and debate away, i think it's great...just as long as it stays clean and non offending. Thanks.
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